Host Shaun Proulx sat down with Realize's interim co-executive directors Kate Murzin and Roger Musselman, along with Realize board co-chair Michael Liddell, following their return from AIDS2026 in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. They discuss the conversations, developments and ideas that stood out — and what they could mean for the future of the HIV response in Canada and around the world.
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Realize Canada fosters positive change for people living with episodic disabilities.
Credits:
Writer, producer, host: Shaun Proulx
Audio and video editor: John Mackie
Graphic design: Alexandria Ditner
Executive Producers: Roger Musselman, Kate Murzin, and Janet London for Realize Canada
The Realize Podcast is sponsored by the Government of Canada.
AIDS Conference AUDIO Episode - E2
[Shaun Proulx]
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, population roughly 6.7 million, home to Christ the Redeemer, Sugarloaf Mountain, and the legendary beaches of Copacabana and Ipanema, famous for samba, carnival, and some of the most breathtaking scenery in the world. And this year, Rio welcomed thousands of researchers, advocates, policy makers, and people living with HIV for AIDS 2026, the 26th International AIDS Conference. The theme was Rethink, Rebuild, Rise, and there was a lot to rethink.
We are living through a moment of remarkable scientific progress in HIV. At the same time, devastating political decisions are gutting HIV programs, putting lives at risk, and creating enormous uncertainty about the future of the global response. Realize was there.
In this episode, I'm joined by members of the Realize leadership and board who traveled to Rio. We'll hear what surprised them, what stayed with them, and what conversations followed them home. We'll also look at developments in prevention, treatment, aging, equity, and the rights of people living with HIV, and what that could mean here in Canada.
And of course, we'll ask the biggest question, after everything they heard in Rio, should we feel more hopeful about the future of HIV or more concerned? I'm Shaun Proulx this is the Realize podcast nurturing potential inclusion and belonging. The podcast dedicated to exploring the strength, adaptability, and determination of individuals facing the ever-changing landscape of episodic disabilities.
Now let's meet our guests. Well, extending a warm welcome to the folks here joining me today on the Realize podcast. Kate Murzin is Realize's co-interim executive director.
Prior to taking on this role, Kate was focused on HIV and aging initiatives at Realize. Roger Musselman is also the co-interim executive director at Realize. He has lived and worked at the intersections of HIV and aging in Canada, and internationally for most of his career as an NGO leader.
Mike Liddell also joins us. He sits on the board of Realize as co-chair. He's also on the community leadership team and the knowledgeable mobilization liaison for the Atlantic region for the CTN Plus, the CIHR pan-Canadian network for HIV and STBBI clinical trials research.
I was just saying to Michael before we started, why is it always such a mouthful in this sector that we're in? Always a mouthful. So welcome to each of you.
I'm so glad to have you on today.
[Kate Murzin]
Thank you for having us. Thank you.
[Shaun Proulx]
I discovered a new thing while the three of you were in Brazil. It's called conference envy. And I'm not sure there's a cure.
If you had to describe Rio de Janeiro in a word to someone who's like me, who's ever been, what word would you use? Kate, I'll start with you.
[Kate Murzin]
Okay, I'm gonna use the word tasty.
[Shaun Proulx]
All right, Roger.
[Roger Musselman]
I'm gonna cheat and I'm gonna say chaotically vibrant.
[Mike Liddell]
Oh, okay, that works.
How about you, Michael?
[Shaun Proulx]
That's two words.
I say interesting.
[Shaun Proulx]
All right, now let's go to the conference itself. Roger, for audiences who've never heard of the International AIDS Conference, what is it? Is it a scientific conference, an activist gathering, a policy summit, or a little of each?
[Roger Musselman]
It is all of those things. It happens every two years. So two years ago, it was in Munich and two years before that, it was in Montreal. And this year it was in Rio. It's the biggest gathering of HIV researchers. So that's clinical researchers, social scientists, but there's also government people there. There's United Nations people there. There are also a lot of people there who are living with HIV and are there to explore what are the latest developments scientifically, medically, but also what's really happening on the ground. It's a little, I would say that the conference, because it's huge, you have to understand it's, you know, there's like 10,000 people there. And it's probably a little shorter on that latter content, on the really, you know, how does all of this stuff really translate into what's happening in people's lives? There's a really strong focus on the clinical side and the scientific side, but it's a mixture of all those things.
[Shaun Proulx]
Kate, what was the mood this year when you stepped into the conference in Rio? Was it hopeful, angry, urgent, all of the above?
[Kate Murzin]
I would say that most people were a little trepidatious. I feel like there's been a lot of policy changes in the last year with cuts to global health funding and specifically HIV funding. And so people were there with an air of, you know, what does this mean for the HIV movement going forward? What does this mean for achieving the global targets about getting people on treatment and into care for HIV? And maybe a little bit unsure, I guess, of the way forward.
[Shaun Proulx]
What was Realize's role in the conference, Michael? I know that they had something called a silver zone. We had something called a silver zone.
Can you talk to us a bit about the role of Realize at the conference and the silver zone itself?
[Mike Liddell]
Sure, as Kate had mentioned with her background, Realize is really a leader in addressing the issues of HIV and aging and moving forward. And I will credit Kate and Roger and others for the formation of the silver zone, which was just a little pavilion within the main global village part of the conference where guest speakers came to talk about their research and their experiences firsthand and also working with people 50 and up. And it was a nice little refreshment because, well, I fit that demographic. That's my goal work. And though, actually, yeah, I was really impressed with the youth at the conference and the youth pavilions and what the youth of the world are doing and saying. And that really gives me hope. But it's nice to have the comfort of people my age, people who have lived with this condition for a very, very long time. So it was nice. And it was well put together.There was issues with the sound quality of the noise. The actual room was drowning out a lot. But Kate and Roger had simultaneous translation available in Portuguese and English. So if it was too loud, you could put on headphones and listen on the English channel. That's fantastic.
[Shaun Proulx]
Roger, the conference theme, Rethink, Rebuild, Rise. What did those words come to mean to you after spending the week there?
[Roger Musselman]
I don't know that if I have an answer for that, Sean, actually, when you're in the midst of it, and particularly how we were engaged, which was significantly in the global village, which is a little bit separate. It's the part of the conference that's open to the public. There wasn't a lot of time to think about what that overarching theme meant. Certainly, one of the things that comes out of the conference and I sense, or has come out of conferences in the past, and I sense that it's coming out of this too, is it is a time to reconnect and begin to rethink and maybe sort of forge some new partnerships and bonds to look at really critical issues that may not be getting the attention that they should be. That's, we've been part of that in previous years. And I have a sense that that's, that there's momentum coming out of this as well. Because it is, I mean, Kate mentioned the uncertainty around the funding globally, particularly with the massive cuts that the current administration in the United States did to agencies like PEPFAR. It is, there's just unknown, but this is one of those rare opportunities for people actually to meet face-to-face and have little sidebar conversations outside of meetings to really talk about, okay, what do we need to do, right? To keep any kind of momentum going.
[Shaun Proulx]
So you did have an answer.
[Roger Musselman]
Yeah, it was just roundabout and wordy.
[Shaun Proulx]
No, I hear you. And I feel like knowing what I know about the cuts that we've seen globally, especially from the US, Rethink, Rebuild, Rise sounds like a response to those cuts and to the situation that we find ourselves in now.
I'll ask each of you this. If you had to summarize the year's conference in one sentence, what would it be? I'll start with you, Kate.
[Kate Murzin]
I would say that it was uniting. I feel like from the content in The Silver Zone, what we saw was that people aging with HIV are experiencing similar things everywhere around the world, regardless of where they live or what resources they have or don't have. And so it's about, for me, it was about recognizing those common experiences and thinking together strategically about how we can address them.
[Shaun Proulx]
Michael, how about you to summarize this year's conference in one sentence?
[Mike Liddell]
Is the glass half full or is the glass half empty? In other words, am I full of optimism or pessimism about the future of HIV around the world as far as the cuts to funding and services? But at the same time, there's a lot of positive energy that's there and people doing really good work regardless of the cuts. I mean, I could talk a little bit about my personal experiences with PREPFAR and USAID because I attended a conference many years ago in Africa, sponsored by the Society for AIDS in Africa. And just to go back just slightly, just a little bit.So the American response to HIV at first was quite slow. Ronald Reagan didn't even use the word AIDS in a speech until 1988. Fast forward to 2023, George Bush, a Republican president created PREPFAR, the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. This was the single largest injection of cash into one single disease ever. And it had some caveats. Bush considered himself a compassionate conservative. And then I met, I saw George and Laura Bush in person at this conference in Africa. First time, the only time I've ever seen a former president or of any country in person. And he talked passionately about PREPFAR. And I could see the work that was being done. I was in Ethiopia. I could see that it was having an effect. Fast forward to 2023, it's all gutted. Cuts were funded immediately. Programs did not receive their money. People were literally out of job overnight. How it's gonna be addressed in the future, what, you know, this is what's the discussion of the conference is. How do we-
[Shaun Proulx]
Rethink, rebuild, rise.
Summary sentence from you, Roger.
[Mike Liddell]
I guess that was a longer than one sentence.
[Shaun Proulx]
It was, but it was compelling. So we'll keep it.
[Roger Musselman]
I don't really wanna focus on the negative side, but I do feel some disappointment, I think, in deficiencies, I would say, in the response. There are still big gaps in the response and Realize works on a bunch of those gaps. And so I'll just name them. So we talked about HIV and aging, and there was a bunch of content. There was a bunch of content, probably more than ever, about HIV aging in the main conference, you know, looking at all sorts of issues, including comorbidities and medical breakthroughs, but also, you know, increased frailty.And I mean, what does treatment mean over the full life course? So there was probably more of that than ever, but the response doesn't, like the sort of the social side of the response doesn't always keep up to breakthroughs.
[Shaun Proulx]
What do you mean by the social side of the response?
[Roger Musselman]
So the support systems, all of those things, even the systems within the conference itself that would make it accessible and something that more older people living with HIV could actually attend. There are lots of barriers for people to actually participate and be part of that discussion. And it's even more so for people who live with disabilities. So I'll just say this huge conference center that we were in, I think for anybody who was living with and navigating mobility issues would have been extremely difficult for them to participate, to get around within the main conference center. The concourses between some of these buildings, because much of it was outside, were all cobbled. So to even get around in a wheelchair would have been extraordinarily difficult. And you don't see many people doing that.
[Shaun Proulx]
You think we would be the leaders, we being the HIV AIDS community, we'd be the leaders in systems and eradicating barriers. This sort of shocks me, Roger, to hear you grade it that way. It's a shame.
[Roger Musselman]
Yeah, I mean, it's an ongoing problem. We co-hosted two years ago and two years before that, Realize co-hosted the disability networking zone.
[Shaun Proulx]
In Montreal.
[Roger Musselman]
In Montreal, and then again in Munich. And getting engagement between, even though there's great need for it, getting engagement between the HIV community and the disability community and having those dialogues and discussions is extremely difficult. It gets shut off.
[Shaun Proulx]
It is a shame.
Kate, was there a dominant conversation at the conference, a conversation you heard over and over again, regardless of where you were or what session you were attending?
[Kate Murzin]
I mean, I spent the majority of my time in the Silver Zone. So the conversation that I was embedded in for the entire conference was around aging. But it wasn't a single conversation. It was a conversation about long-term survivorship. It was a conversation about intergenerational learning between folks who had been living with HIV for the long-term, whether they were lifetime survivors born with HIV or whether they were older long-term survivors and people who were newly diagnosed. There were conversations about what the cure would mean in the context of HIV and aging. And that was, I think, kind of a more predominant conversation at this conference than the previous ones that I've attended. And I missed Munich, so I'm not sure if it started to arise more then. But some really interesting considerations, and I think this is building on what Roger just said about sort of the unspoken things, is yes, finding a medical treatment or cure, so to speak, a functional cure or an actual cure for HIV would be amazing from a clinical perspective. But the community concerns and conversations are still many around access to that, around what that means for people who, because of their HIV status, have access to structural supports like housing and food security, et cetera. And if suddenly there's a cure for HIV, those people just don't have those supports anymore. So then there's just new social determinants of health that still leave them without either tangible resources or a social network to support them. So I think HIV and aging was top of mind for me because I was in the silver zone, but a lot of people were coming around to say that they were really glad to see us there having that conversation.
[Shaun Proulx]
Mike, any surprises for you? Was there something pop out that surprised you along the way?
[Mike Liddell]
In the conference or in Rio? No, in the conference. In the conference, surprises. It was my first time attending an IAS, International AIDS Conference. And even though it was smaller than other ASI conferences, to me, it was like the largest single non-musical event that I've ever been to, that I've ever attended. And much like a musical event, we all had that collective experience of just being there and whether or not you attended session A or session B or did this or presented, we were all kind of part of it. So it was, it felt unifying in that way, even though we were faced with all this adversity. I felt hopeful. I had my own issues there, my own personal things that were happening that sometimes impeded my involvement in the conference, but I think it's a wonderful experience. And I'm so grateful that I was a recipient of a scholarship to attend this event.
[Shaun Proulx]
Roger, I think I know where you might go with your answer to this question, but was there a moment, I mean, I just imagined this global conference, all these thought leaders, all these scientists, all of these brilliant minds, all of these hopeful people, all of these activists in the same place at the same time. Was there a moment when you thought this changes how I think about something? Regarding HIV, where somebody said something that was like light bulb moment, was there a revelation at all? Because it's so hard for me to imagine all of these forces of nature under one ginormous roof. And they're not being something where you're like, holy crap, but I think I know where you might be going with your answer.
[Roger Musselman]
Well, then you know more than I do because I'm not sure where I'm gonna go with this.
It's maybe a difficult question for me to answer because the sessions that I attended in the main conference were pretty focused on very specific things. And so I didn't really attend the big plenary sessions where sometimes you get that buzz of what's going on. I did get a sense that, I mean, everybody, we've already talked about this, everybody acknowledges the uncertainty. Everybody acknowledges that the global response has been affected by cuts. But I did get a sense that there was a buzz that people were working together to find workarounds to all of this, that people are not prepared to let the work that has been put in just slide away and realize that we can't let it slide away. It's too important. And so I do get a sense that there was a lot of energy to find different kinds of solutions. If the old ways aren't working, what new ways do we have to build to get a response that's not just available to people in major urban centers, but that is available in countries in the North, in the South. And there's still a lot of energy to hold the big actors, the governments, international institutions and business like pharma, all of those to hold their feet to the fire to say, what's happening right now isn't good enough. We need to do better. And that energy still exists. And I think people are trying to find different ways of utilizing that energy to get things done.
[Shaun Proulx]
You not only answered my question, you answered my next two questions. I'm not gonna do that. - Sorry.- No, it's okay.
I wanna talk about Canada for a second. It often looks stable from the outside. From the outside. Did the conference make you think differently about Canada's own HIV response?
[Kate Murzin]
Oh, that's a big question. Well, it did make me proud to see all of the folks who were there from Canada and all of the work that they're doing. And many of those partners are people we work with all the time, over Zoom, when we're here in Canada, we meet together. But there's a difference when we were all there together, face to face, and it's funny that we need to go halfway around the world to do that. But we did have a Canadian reception that brought us all together, and I had some really great conversations and even just some new ideas come out of those pieces of work. And so I think that's exciting because it shows that we're still very invested in those of us working in community-based organizations and research institutions, et cetera. We still have that feeling of trying to push forward and trying to do better. One of the things that came to mind for me was around our failure still to fully support Indigenous communities around access to HIV testing, treatment, prevention, and care. And one of the sessions that kind of really stood out to me during was we had a session in the Silver Zone that had folks representing different Indigenous communities globally talking about kind of honoring lifelines and thinking about aging from an Indigenous perspective through the lens of HIV. And, you know, we were talking a little bit about, with some of our Brazilian partners, about how folks who live in the Amazon of Brazil, sometimes it takes like a week or more to even travel down a river to the nearest place where you could get an HIV test or have an appointment or get your medication. And it just sort of reminded me of Canada's north and our Indigenous populations, and still the lack of access to the things that maybe we take for granted in the urban areas. So I think that was one kind of global reminder of an at-home challenge that really still needs work.
[Shaun Proulx]
There are a couple of questions about science and the conference. Everyone talks about scientific breakthroughs. Was there an advance that generated the most excitement?
Did something special come out of the conference in any way, Michael?
[Mike Liddell]
Hmm, good question. I wasn't aware of any major breakthrough. I didn't attend all the sessions. But, you know, to get to both, Kate was mentioning about how it's nice to meet fellow Canadians, you know, in a foreign country at a foreign conference. And there was one researcher out of Montreal that has been involved in a drug study. And it's really, really promising. It has to do with HIV and aging. It's basically a drug that will reduce risks from cardiovascular diseases and conditions. It sounds very promising. And I saw her presentation, and I was part of the review of CTN on this study. And like this study is great. It's gonna help people aging, lessen the risks of, you know, of cardiovascular problems. So that's good to see that on the international stage. That Canada is, you know, we've had a lot of cutbacks with funding and whatnot. And like, it's very difficult for most average person to travel to an international AIDS conference, especially one in South America. But the ones that did worked hard to get there. I'm really proud of the people, all the Canadians that were there.
[Shaun Proulx]
Roger, do we still talk about a cure at a conference like this? Do we talk about it in terms of feeling close, or are we still taking a long road?
[Roger Musselman]
That's always part of the conversation. And I'm not aware of, I think there's lots of things around the edges and some trial cases and things like that. There was one, not necessarily from this conference, but, you know, there is an example of a possible somebody who has been cured in Canada within the past year. But it's a very harrowing history that that person has, and all that they've been through, and all of the medical intervention that went in, not necessarily all related to HIV, but to other conditions as well, that made that possible. And we know that there are examples like that around the world. And so there's conversations about what would the cure mean? And Kate alluded to that. Like, you know, it's not a clear cut answer within the community about what would it actually mean. Look, when Truvada came out, I mean, that was the whole Pandora's box. Also, if there was a way to eradicate HIV in a person's system, you can't eradicate the years of trauma that a person's body has gone through as they've aged and had increased frailty as they've aged because of that HIV infection, that doesn't disappear. And the other effects on people's lives, that doesn't disappear. The years of potential lost income that people have had, which means that many people are living close to the poverty line, or they don't have a lot of resources available to them. A cure doesn't erase that. Eradicate all that. And there are all sorts of issues like that. So obviously, yeah, a cure is important, and obviously something we should be striving for in the sense that it could prevent a future infection, that it would no longer be a concern for future generations. That's an absolute goal that people would want to shoot for. But there are lots of other things that need to be considered as well. And one of the things that I think was an issue at Rio, just as it was in Munich before, is some of the real breakthroughs in actual meds that actually make taking the meds easier for people who they might be available to. That could be- Injectable PrEP? Were we talking about that sort of thing? Injectables, like so, like a once a year or a twice a year injection of an ARV med that would keep people virally suppressed could make a huge difference. For people living remotely or in different communities, for instance, in Africa, or in communities where the stigma around HIV is still, you know, extraordinarily tough and makes living very difficult because even by accessing your meds or taking them, you could be open to violence or any, all sorts of different exclusions. And the fact that many of those drugs that could help people are still not accessible. I mean, they're too expensive, they're under patent. You know, I'm not going to get into all of that, but there are lots of examples like that, so.
- I think- Sorry, go ahead, Kate. -
[Kate Murzin]
Oh, sorry, I was just going to say, though it's not kind of a breakthrough scientifically, I think it's a bit of an important moment. And that is during the conference, the Lancet published the first ever commission report on HIV and aging. And so it's 40 some odd pages of kind of a summary of all the best available evidence on HIV and aging put together by a commission of experts from around the world, led by Dr., yeah, Dr. Amy Justice and Dr. Kerry Althoff, but including global partners and authors who are people aging with HIV. So, you know, very community grounded as well. And this is huge. This signals that this is truly an issue that really needs to be addressed. It offers some suggested strategies, including one which I thought is often missing from the dialogue, which is around online tools. And I'm not talking specifically about, you know, social media or internet groups or anything like that, but actual online self-management, chronic disease assessment tools, even tools for assessing like hearing and vision for people who can't access those kinds of tests either because of proximity or money or what have you. But these are concerns that people aging with HIV might have, you know, how can we leverage all of these available resources and tools online? Know which ones are trustworthy, not just ones that could be created by anyone and leverage those to really improve quality of life for people aging with HIV. So that was big for me.
[Shaun Proulx]
I'm struck by the fact that it was the Lancet as well that has issued this report, globally known, recognized brand, for lack of a better word. But I'm also struck by something else. I remember when I was on the board and realized I wanted to go to the AIDS conference. I don't remember where it was, somewhere in Europe, but it was so focused on youth and HIV that I believe, if I'm not mistaken, Kate, because I think you came on my SiriusXM show and talked to us about the guerrilla effort that Realize was undertaking to get into the conference and shine a spotlight on HIV and aging. And so what I'm struck by is how very far we've come on the topic of HIV and aging. And I kind of have to pat Realize on the back because there was Realize that was kicking the door down several conferences ago.
[Kate Murzin]
And now we're- We have been, yeah, that was Amsterdam.
[Shaun Proulx]
I was gonna say Amsterdam, and I didn't wanna throw Amsterdam under the bus, and you did.
[Kate Murzin]
Yeah, that was Amsterdam. We had been, you know, positioning ourselves and really pushing forward the need for dedicated space for aging with HIV at the global conference for several years, ever since Durban. And we, that year, we just got fed up because we applied for a Global Village Networking Zone and we didn't get one, and we were frustrated. And so we just found our way in. We presented on ageism in the Human Rights Networking Zone. We did a social media campaign on HIV and aging. And we just, yeah, we just kept on, I think my favorite phrase around this is relentless incrementalism. We just kept on pushing and pushing. And in Montreal, when the conference was here six years ago is when we first, sorry, four years ago, four years ago, we first got the Silver Zone and we were instrumental in bringing that to fruition. And this is our third one that we've collaborated on now. And it's just growing and getting more.
[Shaun Proulx]
And the Lancet is putting out a publication. So, I mean, I say kudos to Realize for starting this up because it wouldn't have happened, I don't think, without the efforting of Realize.
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[Shaun Proulx]
I wanna move to talking to you and getting your thoughts on some equity and human rights ideas. We talked about the science, it's extraordinary, but it doesn't end epidemics. What conversations were happening around stigma, poverty, housing, discrimination, all of those sorts of things?
I'll ask you, Roger.
[Roger Musselman]
All of those things were interwoven through most of the presentations because particularly the kinds of issues that we were talking about in the Silver Zone, that's the main focus. Obviously, there's medical side to it as well, but those things were the main focus. And how the way we support and treat HIV, people living with HIV is not equal. It varies from community to community in terms of the access that people have. And I think we've become better at getting some of the treatment, people, a treatment available to people, but the sort of support networks and systems, even health systems that can support people to look at the whole person, not just their relationship with the virus, has not moved as far as it should. And it's not supporting people, but people are probably not getting all of the health outcomes that they could get if the focus of treatment changed just a little bit.
[Shaun Proulx]
Michael, as a member of the board of REALIZE as the co-chair of a Canadian organization, what lessons did REALIZE bring home in your mind about disability, aging, and living well with HIV?
[Mike Liddell]
Well, REALIZE is one of the leading organizations in Canada that are addressing those issues. So I'm proud to be part of an organization that addresses episodic disabilities of a wide range and working towards rehabilitation and addressing needs and concerns. HIV and aging is one large component. We have a very diverse board. We have people from all sorts of walks of life, geographically dispersed, people with disabilities, people that identify with living with HIV, people that work in the community, people with social work backgrounds. So it's very, very diverse. So I see this moving forward that there's gonna be more work coming our way towards, for example, HIV and aging. Myself, I've been living with HIV since the 80s. There was no youth movement. There was no this, there was no that. It was just, you know, get your life together because you're gonna die. And that's kind of the way it is. But now I'm a person that has been aging. So I've not only, you know, have I had this, you know, chronic inflammation and who knows what the long-term effects of antiretrovirals is on my body. And I want to know if, you know, frailty, functioning decline, any of these things, what is gonna happen? And people are concerned and people are scared. And there's still issues with, you know, psychosocial stresses of living with HIV, structural inequality. Maybe the latter isn't so much in my case, but I never knew, you know, stigma was one thing. I never knew there was such a thing as internalized stigma, but trauma, I didn't understand what trauma is. I do now. So all these things play into a role into, you know, the wellbeing of a person and HIV and realize is quite the, taking a leadership in this.
[Shaun Proulx]
Hey, I wanted to talk to you a bit about Brazil itself. Did they center themselves? They're the host of the conference, obviously, but did they center themselves? They've long been recognized internationally for their public HIV response. Was there anything where they were sort of going, ta-da, this is what we're all about and this is what we've done and this is how we handle things and see things and do things. And if so, did we learn anything from Brazil that Canada could adopt?
[Kate Murzin]
So I can't really speak to that, Sean, because I wasn't in the main part of the conference for most of the time. The one thing I can share is that we had some Brazilian partners working on the Silver Zone with us and one of them presented in the Silver Zone and she was very clear about the positive impact of the Brazilian model of care and universal access to care and treatment and the massive positive impact that that has had. And so I can't speak to how prominent it was throughout the conference, but certainly the folks I spoke to who are Brazilian are very proud of that achievement.
[Shaun Proulx]
Michael, going back to you for a moment, you just explained that you've been living with HIV since the 80s and I wonder, does one experience a conference like this differently because of their status? Do you see things through a certain lens that others may not?
[Mike Liddell]
It's always a unique position to be in, to be at an international conference surrounded by healthcare professionals, frontline workers, funders, policymakers, international media. So it's very important to have our voices at the table, take charge of our future, of our health, nothing about us without us. So it's very important.In a conference like this, you mean you have people that are activists and you have people that are advocates, working behind the scenes, making changes. It actually makes you very proud. I am representative and I'm representative of other people, of my country, of Realize, of people who are just like me, just regular folks who just happen.
[Shaun Proulx]
I got to go to the Montreal conference and as someone who's HIV undetectable, I looked around the rooms of the conference that year with all the thousands of people dedicated to ending HIV. And I felt overwhelmed with emotion. In fact, I feel it again, just talking about it. Mike, I wonder if you had that sort of experience too, because there's beauty in that. There is. There's hope and compassion in that. And when it's all in front of you and reflected back with thousands of faces, I found it overwhelming a couple of times. And I wonder if you did too.
[Mike Liddell]
I mean, in some ways, I'm not really the kumbaya type.
[Shaun Proulx]
Are you saying I am?
[Mike Liddell]
But I get that feeling of, you know, of like, wow. I mean, we're a community where men, women, old, young, different parts of the world, different, you know, economic positions in life. We're all here together. We all want to see HIV eliminated. We all know the difficulties of it, but we all want to improve the lives of our fellow humans. So it is certainly a collective feeling. It is a really good feeling. And I wish scholarships were more readily available. I wish the costs to attend these things that were not as high. There's so many things that, you know, are on my wishlist. But yeah, kumbaya.
[Shaun Proulx]
I want to move back to you and Kate, Roger, with some ED questions for you. When you come home from a conference like this, what happens next? How does the information gathered in Rio and the teachings you provided reflect back into the programs and services of Realize here in Canada?
[Roger Musselman]
I think one thing, and we've talked a little bit about it, is that, excuse me, obviously we were working in partnership with a couple of organizations from the United States, European partners and Brazilian partners, and then a bunch of other people from various parts of the world who were taking part in the meetings, the organizing of the Silver Zone, even though they may not necessarily have been like on the ground in Rio. And there is momentum that comes out of that work that needs to be maintained and built. So it's not just you hold an event every two years and a bunch of people come. There's a building and sustaining and growing of a movement that happens, which Kate does a lot of that work, that goes on continuously. And I think there's momentum, and Kate can probably say more, there's momentum to coming out of Rio to keep that going and to growing it.
[Kate Murzin]
Yeah, just to give some concrete examples, coming out of the first Silver Zone in Montreal, a small group of us got together and penned the Glasgow Manifesto, which was 10 calls to action for quality of life and wellbeing for people aging with HIV globally in a bit of an advocacy piece of work. And then coming out of the Munich conference, some global partners united to host a summit where we gathered long-term survivor stories, which are going to be released publicly as part of a project called the Legacy Chest. That's gonna come out in October of this year. And there will be something similar coming out of this conference. We just don't know what it is yet, but there will be work to be done, as Roger said, together with our partners, who we know share common goals in terms of quality of life for people aging with HIV. And we will figure out how we harness that energy and direct it someplace good.
[Shaun Proulx]
How important is it for organizations like Realize to have a Canadian voice on an international stage like this conference was? Roger.
[Roger Musselman]
I don't know if I wanna focus on the voice. I mean, obviously it's important. Kate has already mentioned about how Realize helped to push to get these issues onto that international agenda to begin with. The international partnership work, I think is extremely important because it also keeps us as an organization connected to developments that are happening elsewhere. It's an opportunity to share research, to share little breakthroughs, things that work and also things that don't work. So we can stop trying to push something that's not gonna go anywhere. Yeah.
[Shaun Proulx]
Anything going on in Rio that we'll look back 20 years from now and say, well, look at that, that started in Rio. The way we look back at Amsterdam and say, look at that, our HIV and aging work started in Amsterdam. Anything like that with Rio, Kate?
[Kate Murzin]
I don't think we know yet, Sean. I think that's yet to be determined. We're only less than a month since we got back and I think we're just kind of trying to take stock of everything that happened and what happens next will be the legacy of the conference.
[Shaun Proulx]
Michael, after spending a week immersed in the global HIV response, how do you feel? Are you more hopeful or more concerned about the future? I think I know your answer, but I'll ask you anyway.
[Mike Liddell]
Oh, that is a tough question because I'm a little bit of both.
[Shaun Proulx]
Yeah.
[Mike Liddell]
I am concerned that the changes in the funding mechanism around the world is leading to an increase of HIV around the world and in Canada. And Kate alluded to situations in the indigenous communities in Canada and in the urban centers and realized how the presence at the CAR conference in Winnipeg. And we've seen firsthand that the AIDS epidemic is exploding out in the Prairie provinces. And we are returning back to actually people dying with full-blown AIDS here in Canada, which is a terrible way to go full circle. So, but I am optimistic that we are making the right movements and right direction towards, you know, research and having people involved in, you know, this HIV and aging thing to have people who with the lived experience at the table and help guide the research and the direction. I think these international partnerships that Realize is creating through the Legacy Chest, which I took part in and Kate was one of the facilitators, is great. Realize also has the whole national secretariat for the National Committee of HIV and Aging. And I think there's some great work that is coming out of that. And possibly some grants will be coming our way for some projects.
[Kate Murzin]
Fingers crossed.
[Mike Liddell]
And I think moving forward, I guess I have optimism. Whether or not on the international, it was fantastic to meet people. I'm concerned about what's happening on the international scale. But I guess I'll just, you know, this is glass half full or glass empty for me. I'd say at this point it's half full. So, but I'd like to see it full completely.
[Shaun Proulx]
Roger, when you got on the plane home, what one conversation, if any, was still echoing in your head that you had in Rio?
[Roger Musselman]
I think Kate will attest, since we were on the same flight, there wasn't a lot going through my head because I got a really bad cold on the last day there. Which is still lingering. But I think one of the things that, and this wasn't coming out as like sort of a through conversation throughout the conference, but there were moments that were part of our work, but also that I heard elsewhere that there is an honoring or a transferring and sharing of activism amongst generations, which is beginning to happen, that I think is really important. We all know that, you know, the people who lived and survived through, you know, the worst years of the pandemic in the 80s and 90s, you know, some are all getting older. And those stories are, you know, you're afraid that they're on the verge of getting lost. Not just the stories, but the experiences, like the crazy activism that had to take place to get the global community to move on this at all. And there are a lot of youth activists, you know, who have their own particular concerns, but there are increasingly conversations between the generations looking at the future of activism around HIV. And I think that's really positive. No, I'll leave it there.
[Shaun Proulx]
Over the last hour, I've really enjoyed talking to each of you and I appreciate you helping to paint such a great picture of what the conference was like for those of us who didn't get to go. If the listener or the viewer of this podcast episode today has one thing to take away that you want them to know about the International AIDS Conference, what do you hope it is?
I'll ask each of you that. I'll start with you, Kate.
[Kate Murzin]
So I'm just gonna end by saying, by reflecting on a moment where I was chuckling to myself, but in thinking back on it, it's symbolic to me, which is that we were in the midst in the silver zone of having, you know, a very kind of academic conversation about tools for patient-reported outcome measures. So basically like how do people bring their most important concerns to their clinical appointments? And then there was suddenly the sounds of a literal marching band coming into the Global Village. There was a marching band, there were whistles, there were people shouting. It was a parade, a protest about access to medication. And, you know, we could have just tried to keep on keeping on with our conversation, but we just said, you know, why? Why would we compete with, you know, an equally important message? And it just was a reminder to me that, you know, everything that's happening, whether it's clinical, whether it's community, whether it's activism, we have to create and carve out space for each other because it's all important. And, you know, there is no point in competing when we're all after the same thing, which is really to, you know, improve the world for people living with HIV.
[Shaun Proulx]
And a beautiful disruption to remind us of all of that.
[Kate Murzin]
Absolutely.
[Shaun Proulx]
Roger, the listener wants to take away what from this hour the most?
[Roger Musselman]
Despite the adversity, there are a lot of really good people working on these issues, sometimes succeeding, sometimes not. But it's not just, those good people cross the lines of different sectors of the people who were there. So, you know, it's people in clinical care, it's people, the research scientists, it's the, obviously it's community activists, it's the frontline service organizations, but it's also people who are interested in policy. It is government people, it's people involved in the businesses. I mean, the entities themselves may not be moving in the direction that you want, but the people who are working within them are pushing hard to get really strong and effective outcomes out of all of these discussions. And you see that in particular in big meetings like this, when you have the chance to have sort of sideline conversations with all of this variety of people. And it's easy to lose sight of that when you're just hunkering away from day to day. From day to day.
[Shaun Proulx]
Michael Lindell, I'll leave it with you for the last word.
[Mike Liddell]
I think the humanity, the humanity was at its best there. I mean, when Kate mentioned that, you know, you could be talking to researchers about their presentation and their work and patting each other back and suddenly a marching samba protest band comes through. And what are you going to do? You can't talk, you just got to dance or join them. Yes, it's a protest against access to medication and whatnot, but it's fun. And we're all there. We all work hard. We all work hard to be there, but we can also have a good time. We can dance. I'd never learned how to do the bossa nova, but you know, maybe next time.
[Shaun Proulx]
I want to see the bossa nova. Come on, show me the bossa nova.
[Shaun Proulx]
Kate Murzin and Roger Musselman and Michael Liddell, thank you so much for coming on the Realize the Broadcast. I appreciate that so much.
[Kate Murzin]
Thanks for having us, Sean.
[Shaun Proulx]
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you.
What happens at an international conference matters most when the conversations don't end when everyone gets on a plane and goes home. AIDS 2026 brought together thousands of people with very different experiences of HIV, but facing a common challenge. How do we protect the progress we've made while making sure the people still being left behind are finally reached? As we heard today, there is extraordinary reason for hope in science and prevention and treatment and in the determination of people living with HIV and the communities working alongside them. But progress is not inevitable. It takes political will. It takes investment and advocacy, and it takes people willing to keep pushing, especially when political winds are pushing back.
Our thanks to our guests for bringing some of Rio home to us and for sharing what they believe Canada and Realize can take from this year's conference. I'm Shaun Proulx. Thanks for joining us here on the Realize podcast.
Thank you for joining us on the Realize podcast, nurturing potential inclusion and belonging, a production of Realize. Realize fosters positive change for people living with episodic disabilities. Please help us by taking our fast three-question survey found in the episode notes.
Thank you to our guests this episode for their expertise and generous sharing of their stories. Writer, producer, host, Shaun Proulx. Audio and video editor, John Mackie.
Graphic design, Alexandria Dittner. Executive producers, Kate Murzin, Roger Musselman, and Janet London for Realize. The Realize podcast is sponsored by the Government of Canada.
For more information on Realize, visit realizecanada.org and follow Realize on X, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at HIV and Rehab and at Realize at Work. Be sure to subscribe and share this podcast with your friends, especially those with episodic disabilities on your socials. And please take a few seconds to give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts.
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Until next time, what do you realize?
Hi, my name is Savannah. Hello, I'm Odish.
Hello, my name is Randy.
We are stronger as a unit.
That it's a beautiful world out there. That HIV actually saved my life.
I'm positive about being positive.